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September 09, 2005

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Not being a lawyer, I have to ask: Is the "person of ordinary firmness" standard something new, or did they just make that up?

I ask because it seems like such a standard would be useful in some of the other decisions I've heard about. For example, if armed police board the bus you're riding in and walk down the aisle asking questions, would a person of ordinary firmness realize they were free to leave?

Sorry if this is a thread-jack, and I realize these are different kinds of cases, but I had a sudden feeling that this "ordinary firmness" standard seems much more true-to-life than "supreme court justice sitting quietly in his own chambers three years later" standard that is usually used.

Windy, they apply a standard like that in 4A cases. E.g., would a reasonable person feel free to leave, if yes, then there's a seizure. Problem is that in the Court's view, a reasonable person would almost always feel free to leave.

Two cops and a drug dog on a bus. Sure, a reasonable would feel free to leave. Thus, the standard they apply leads to some kooky outcomes.

A successful First Amendment retaliation case against a private party ... sigh.

An acting sheriff using police authority is not exactly a 'private party'.

Private party = private plaintiff, as distinguished from a government party/plaintiff (there's a different line of cases when a gov't employee is bringing a 1A retaliation claim. I'll amend the headline to clarify, though.

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